Outer circle members, please respond at least twice, using textual support for your ideas. Use proper language and thoughtful reading strategies.
If you cannot post, please put your ideas in the discussion doc.
If you cannot post, please put your ideas in the discussion doc.
Responding to Kelsey's idea, you can't force anyone to listen or retain the importance of what is being said.
ReplyDelete-Delaney
DeleteI agree with Kelsey's question, I think people always have a choice to listen or not, and it can always take time. For example, Montag's job was solely based around him blindly listening to the fire department/Beatty, and it took him however long he worked as a fireman to well up the courage to listen to his inner curiosity, and his humanity as a human. He stopped listening to the fire department, technology, Beatty, and decided to listen to himself, and discover more about himself.
ReplyDeleteIn response to Kelsey who asked, "On page 147 Mr. Simmons said “But you can’t make people listen. They have to come around in their own time...” Do you agree with this statement. Why or why not?" I agree with this statement and I think it connects to a lot of this book, because Montag was trying to convince Mildred to like books in part 2 two and even though he was right about the concept of books, she did not understand and it's hard to change someones opinion when they have a set mindset on something. I think especially in an argument when you have a thought or opinion It may take time to really think about the situation and have a change in opinion. The fireman on page 109 says " its real beauty is that it destroys responsibility and consequences, a problem gets to burdensome, and into the furnace with it." I think even this fireman has heard opinions about books but he clearly still thinks they are a problem and is not going to change his mind.
ReplyDeleteThe significance of the river is something he can finally just calm down in. He can release his thoughts and his emotions into one place without being punished for the way he feels.
ReplyDelete-Delaney
To respond to Makenzie's question, i think that it is important to notice Montag's background when we talk about why he's become more of a leader. His unique experience as a fireman helps the others understand why it's important to keep the knowledge of books, like on page 141 of the graphic novel it says "(To Montag) See how important you've become in the last minute?" and that shows why montag is the leader now.
ReplyDeleteIn reponse to Kelsey's question, if I was in agreement with the quote “But you can’t make people listen. They have to come around in their own time...” I am in agreement with this statement because after discussing the TED Talk about listening, I was able to come to the conclusion that ingorance will usually overpower feelings of compassion and curiosity. For example, Beatty is in agreement with philosphy that “‘School is shortened, discipline relaxed, philosophies, histories, languages dropped, English and spelling gradually gradually neglected, finally alomst completely ignored. Life is immediate the job counts, pleasure lies all about after work’” (Bradbury 53). Beatty, Faber, and many other characters in the book are unable to listen to others thoughts and views, which is why their society is the way it is.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteGoing back to what Kelsey said, I thing depending on the topic you can make people listen. Even if someone is very headstrong in their opinion it can be harder and take more time and effort but eventually you will be able to take others viewpoints into ideas and completely change your life. Like Montag and Faber's relationship.
ReplyDeleteAnswering Jackson's question, water seems to have a calming effect on Montag as whenever he is seen within water, (rain, river, etc), he starts to think his own thoughts and be his own person, deciding what he is feeling is valid.
ReplyDeleteAnswering Rachel's question, I agree with Caleb and Caiden. As Montag floats down the river, he leaves his old life behind, and starts anew. I also agree with Lily's observation; "The Water is like a symbol for cleansing". This observation shows how the water/the exit from the city/old life which was once un-thinkable, is now a very real possibility. In the graphic novel, on page 135 in the top-right panel, as Montag is floating away the city is illustrated very small and far away, and the only text in this panel is "Away from Everything." I think this panel supports both Lily's and Caiden+Caleb's claims/questions.
ReplyDeleteI think the significance of the river is the same as the rain in the beginning of the book. It's a way of cleaning montag of his thoughts and how he feels when he doesn't know what to do. On page 135 of the graphic novel it says "The River held him comfortably, and gave him time, time at last to consider this month, this year, and a lifetime of years" and I think that is the same process he bage when talking to clarisse in the rain in the beginning.
ReplyDeleteIn response to Jackson's question, "On page 135 Bradbury says, “In sudden peacefulness...away from the city and the lights.” How does this moment add to the water motif throughout the story?" I think that this adds to the water motif because throughout the whole book water came back to him as something peaceful and nice, I think it is also the face that fire burns the books and what he wants but water puts out fire which is what he realizes he needs. I think it is sort of saying water is dealing with your problems and fire is pushing them away, which is something that was so wrong with the society he was living in. I think this point is demonstrated on page 134 of the graphic novel with the sequence of images, where Montag is getting swept by the river " He felt the river pull him farther into darkness" I think in this sequence of images he looks refreshed and at peace.
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ReplyDeleteKendyl's question
ReplyDeleteThere are the small earpieces, there have been very close to nuclear war. Along with that there are wall to wall tv's. Our leaders will become more and more corrupt.
We are the same in certain ways. We don't think of the harm and impact we are doing to our family and our enviroment
In response to Jackson's question, how does this moment add to the water motif throughout the story? "In sudden peacefulness...away from the city and the lights.” I believe this moment is important to the development of the motif of water because when Montag is escaping from the city, he uses the water to travel away from the city and the hound. I believe Bradbury is expressing that water is way for people to escape the evil and cleanse the body from its impurities. For example, rain is one of the best ways to replenish nature/the world, and for many of us, after a long day of school or work, a shower is one of the best ways to recharge ourselves. At the beginning of the novel, Brabury uses rain to slow down the moment, when he says "The trees overhead made a great sound of letting down their dry rain" (Bradbury 3). By describing nature and rain, it slows down the reader, and shows how Montag is able to disconnect from technology/his fast paced life.
ReplyDeleteTo answer Peyton's question, I think that Montag did it out of rage. On page 98 after Montag reads the poem, and Mrs. Bowles starts to get mad and him and attack him he states, "Go home and think about your first husband divorced, or your second husband killed in a jet, or your third husband blowing his brains out..." Montag would usually never say something like this to hurt someone, but he was in such a rage that they didn't like books that he just said it. Another thing that it might be is that Montag doesn't think things over, when he read the poem to Mildred and her friends, he didn't stop to think how they would react and just though everyone would like the books. I think that he was ether in a rage or failed to think if it was a good idea when he went into the Black's house.
ReplyDeleteTo answer Kendyl's question, at the beginning of the books, Montag blindly followed the law like every other person just living and going through the motions, Early in the story I forgot the page but Clarisse says, "What do the books say?" and this was the first time that Montag had every though about breaking the law or why the law was in place. Fast-forward to later in the story, Montag is now reading books and is questioning why the law are in place not blindly following them.
ReplyDeleteDrew Salyers